TDI tuning box (or equivalent) on 1.6 Levorg - questions

rnvb

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Oct 25, 2022
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Hi, for anyone who has the TDI tuning box or any similar tuning box added to their 1.6 Levorg, what sort of 0-60 times can it achieve with this fitted? Also has anyone had their Levorg on a dyno with this fitted?

I'm sure I read a previous post from someone on here that it was about 2 seconds quicker to 60 mph with it fitted.
 

moojy

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Mar 3, 2016
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67
I fitted one years ago, checked with my dealer first and they said it was OK to fit, wouldnt invalidate anything. Was still a bit concerned about reports of it providing more power than the CVT could handle. Only used it for a couple years then took it out because (a) still had that worry and (b) didnt really make that much difference to what my main concern.... which is - don't need more power, need more responsiveness from the sleepy CVT, pulling out is scary when the CVT does nothing for the first full second, except rev up and not move. But the sleepiness is a "built-in" feature courtesy of Subaru, it is programmatic and adaptive afaics. Because the TDI box made a short-term adjustment then the CVT adapted back to it's old "stupid mode" every time.
I have no idea where the "2 sec quicker" above came from, really doubt that is true, but anyway the CVT still wastes the first full second spinning about and "wondering what is going on" when you put the pedal down fast, so any gain is lost anyway.

However at 7 years in, many many years after I stopped using the box, my CVT blew up. Cost me many thousands to replace. No evidence it was the box but I strongly suspect it did some harm, while not giving me any increased responsiveness.

Overall for the gain vs the risks, I wouldn't recommend using one on a 1.6L.

I doutbt anyone would put it on a dyno and check, the 1.6L is so inherently asthmatic is not worth doing. However TDI Tuning seem like a professional outfit and I am sure they have actually put it on and measured the numbers in the lab, I believe their increased output claims, am just saying whatever you do to a Levorg in the *real world* to improve the drivetrain, the CVT programming will *always* defeat you. Period.

I have owned various performance Imprezas for 15 years before I got the Levorg 1.6, I do like driving it a lot, wouldnt swap it for something else, just find some things about it seriously flawed (sleepy CVT, terrible suspension, heavy self-centering steering with little feedback), have come to the conclusion it has been deliberately made so. Best thing to do is just to accept it's limitations.

I would love to import one of the Sportswagons from Australia, I hear they have improved some aspects of the above, and are inherently more powerful anyway which may be a bonus, but for me am happy with the 1.6 power, it is the need for the CVT to not be permanently in the wrong "gear" which matters most, no point in having power which doesnt arrive when you ask for it. e.g. you go into a corner with pace, put foot on the brake gently to adjust for the bend mid-way, then back on the gas mid bend to pull out fast and the dippy CVT has decided cos of the braking you are "slowing down to grab some shopping and a coffee, mid-bend", goes into the wrong gear position completely, then scrambles about for 2 secs to find out what is going on. The machine has absolutely no idea what is happening on the road. The "paddles" are absolutely no use, they do not control the CVT directly at all, they just say to the engine "I've put in a request for a gear change at your convenience, but feel free to blindly change the revs in the opposite direction at the same time so no actual power increase is provided, I mean we don't need that for the coffee-stop in the middle of this bend". Feels nothing like a manual and clutch whatsover, where you kick down the gear and get that torquey pull as you emerge.

Just need to get over it and accept being pressed then overtaken by a 800cc Peugeot 108 on a windy road, while yelling "sorry for the obstruction mate, this dipsy thing won't change gear".

Add to that the first bump you come to causes the whole suspension to wallow dangerously, followed by the smallest pothole which causes it to crash like you've just broken something.
And then the incredibly heavy self-centering "lets-copy-German-style-steering-instead-of-light-responsive-Japanese-steering" that doesn't actually want to corner.

The Levorg is designed for cruising along and occasionally a bit of pace, but nothing much else. Is pleasurable to drive doing that. But even overtaking can be frightening as when you floor it, the CVT does it's best to spin the other way ("to save fuel my dear, I know you are going to die in a head on collision from on-coming traffic because you cannot complete the manoeuvre, but don't worry at least you know you saved the planet 0.0001ml of fuel while you died").

It also seems to be a bit of pot luck. When my CVT got replaced with another unit from Subaru UK, the responsiveness of the car improved measurably (though still note all the above) and remained so till now (2 further years on). Did I get a dud the first time? Or is the programming all over the place? And yes, I did "reset" the previous one, it just learnt to be dipsy all over again each time.

Who knows. Have just learnt to live with "not really being in charge of the car/drive" any more. Needless to say the family all love it, just the driver is muttering away :)
 
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rnvb

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Oct 25, 2022
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25
Thank you for the reply moojy, that's a great post. Out of interest, what year is your Levorg? I'm sure I read something about the CVT having some slight improvements from the 2017 model onwards along with the Eyesight addition etc.

Did you change the CVT fluid at all before it died? It would be interesting to know if that helps with its life or if the TR580 CVT is just a bit weak in general? Also did you ever try a throttle controller on your Levorg to see if that aided responsiveness? I know the Australian and Japanese 2.0 Levorgs have the higher torque TR690 so I would imagine they programmed that for more response. I read an Australian review on the STI and it praised the CVT for responsiveness.

I have test driven one Levorg so far (2015 model) but it was such a short test drive I didn't get a chance to explore what it can do performance wise. I'm absolutely sold on the looks of the Levorg, I think it looks great. I'm a big fan of the BTCC as well so when it was competing in that championship, and winning it, I became a big fan of them.

I'm not looking for that level of performance from it, however I do a lot of driving down to Lincolnshire to see the in-laws and on those long A roads full of lorries and various farming vehicles you need a bit of response and power to get past them safely. I'm probably answering my own question really and the 1.6 maybe isn't for me. It's a shame there aren't more 2.0 STI imports around as the last one I looked at had sold the day after I spotted it. I think you're spot on with the purpose of the 1.6, performance is a bit of an afterthought and if that's what you need then the STI is the way to go. Just a massive shame they never sold it here.
 

moojy

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Mar 3, 2016
Messages
67
Mine is the 2016 model, specifically bought it before they forced the "eyesore" feature on to me... which would have made the car even harder to drive while it kept telling you "you are too stupid to drive safely I am taking over". I like driving, if I wanted an automatic washing machine I would have bought one of them instead LOL. My only "auto" concession in the Levorg was the CVT because I injured my back and operating a clutch pedal became hard, so auto it had to be. But thankfully I have working "eyesight" of my own, don't need the car to interfere especially when it does it badly... e.g. try the "auto-dimming" headlamps on the Levorg... they sense bright light on-coming and dim themselves... genius, right? Nope. Most sharp bends (in Scotland anyway) on windy roads have bright reflective warning signs as you approach - the "clever" headlamp feature senses the huge bright reflection of its own headlamps and dims the lamps (like everything else on a Levorg, about 2 secs too late) so you acutally go through the corner completely in the dark.... smart eh? I think I'd rather be in charge of the car myself, I told the dealer. :) Luckily you can turn off the auto-dimming. Just turn off all the auto stuff and enjoy driving the car yourself.

Your point about the fluid is spot on. I wasnt "allowed" to change the fluid - the UK spec specifically claims the fluid is "lifetime" which we all know is impossible. Changing it would have invalidated the warranty in the UK (my car was bought new). So I had to "risk" that Subaru UK (which aren't Subaru at all, are an independent importer who own the UK and European franchise) knew what they were doing and would honour this. So I didnt change the fluid as per "their" requirements. Then after the warranty ran out anyway the CVT died, probably cos under warranty it was being damaged. In hindsight I should have changed the fluid as soon as the warranty expired, but I suspect the damage to the bearings was already done, it may have slowed down the shattering but it possibly would have happened anyway.
Doing it all again? - I would throw the "warranty" out and just change the fluid. Live and learn. My first auto, never mind my first CVT, I didn't realise what "delicate little flowers" these fancy machines are compared to the (manual) Impreza which was solid like a rock. I didn't need to go out and apply night cream to it every evening, etc. Just jumped in gave it a good thrashing and made sure it got properly serviced once a year. It "ate tyres and drank fuel" as it's diet but was brilliant. (OK, will take the rose-tinted glasses off now, lol).

Interesting diversion... the point you make about BTCC. When my CVT shattered my dealer was fabulous (always has been fabulous, serviced all my scoobies for 25 years now) - a new CVT from Japan would have cost around £8k and taken months to arrive. They negotiated with Subaru UK to let me have one of their "cast-offs" for around half that. Basically they had new CVT's taken out of the BTCC cars early on to replace them with "transimssions that work" (my words, not theirs - just being cynical here!) for the competition. So I have one of the CVT's from the first BTCC cars in mine now. Obviously it is the one the BTCC car didnt want!

I used to travel to Japan a lot, so I test drove the 2.0L STI there as well. It's CVT was not much better than the 1.6L, so the extra power did not matter one bit. However if you read the media blurb the newer generation in Australia (maybe Japan too, not sure) refer to improvements in the CVT specifically for active driving - is marketing-forked-tongue for "the original one was really dippy". But I havent driven one, just dreaming it is better. Cos mentions things like "now holds the gear through bends longer" - yep exactly what I was saying above.

I would still recommend a Levorg, it is great fun to drive, feels like a really good car is hiding under there. And is a quality build, with lots of attention to detail you simply don't get with European cars in that price bracket. The 1.6L is enough for me (despite me being used to the special edition performance Imprezas I used to own). It is controlling the CVT that is my challenge. What you have to get used to is timing the manoeuvres, you need to give the CVT time to wake up from its slumber. I am used to it now, but I will still skip half my overtake opportunities because I know the CVT cannot wake up in time. Whereas in a manual you can pull out, punch it and pull back in again easy-peasy. A CVT? Not really.
I am quite an active driver I like pushing on through bends and overtaking (when safe) often. No speeding, absolutely abhor that, but "making rapid progress".
If that is not your style I think you will find the Levorg just fine, especially if you set your expectations.

Put it this way if I were driving through rural Lincolnshire I would still definitely choose to do it in my Levorg than the "usual" alternatives (aka "competition", i.e. other estates). The CVT is otherwise very smooth, feels torquey, is surprisingly quiet. Just miss the spriteliness of a manual Impreza. And yes the Levorg (with the scoop anyway) looks nicer than the rest!

And if I could afford to replace my car?... I would still replace it with another Levorg. So don't let me put you off :)
 

rnvb

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Joined
Oct 25, 2022
Messages
25
It does seem to be the main negative point with the Levorg as a whole, the CVT. I read so many comments of people put off because of the transmission and it's a shame as Subaru could have had a really successful car on their hands. I wouldn't say it's deterred me from buying one and it's good to be aware of the gearboxes 'quirks' shall we call them. The reliabilty and it's lethargy would be my biggest concerns. Coming from a Honda Civic Type R which has been practically bomb proof, it's been difficult to look past another Honda but the Levorg has been the most appealing car to me after an FK2 Civic Type R.

It would be my first auto too, so coming from manual cars it might take some getting used to. I'm not adverse to them as I used to be, traffic is getting worse and worse so it's probably a good choice. I'm probably similar to you, I like to make good progress but I'm certainly not one for speeding. I have a 6yr old and another one on the way so safety and good road etiquete are priorities for me. You've certainly not put me off the Levorg, quite the opposite! I think I really need to get in another for a proper test drive and see if it suits me then take it from there.

That's a great story about the ex-BTCC gearbox! I don't think they would have a championship winning driver if they left those CVT's in there! I noticed last year they were actually selling Jason Plato's car on an auction site, I think the estimates were £65 to £75,000 but it didn't sell in the end.
 
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Sep 15, 2018
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Vehicle(s)
Subaru Levorg 1.6 GT with STI body kit 2016 (17 plate)
It does seem to be the main negative point with the Levorg as a whole, the CVT. I read so many comments of people put off because of the transmission and it's a shame as Subaru could have had a really successful car on their hands. I wouldn't say it's deterred me from buying one and it's good to be aware of the gearboxes 'quirks' shall we call them. The reliabilty and it's lethargy would be my biggest concerns. Coming from a Honda Civic Type R which has been practically bomb proof, it's been difficult to look past another Honda but the Levorg has been the most appealing car to me after an FK2 Civic Type R.

It would be my first auto too, so coming from manual cars it might take some getting used to. I'm not adverse to them as I used to be, traffic is getting worse and worse so it's probably a good choice. I'm probably similar to you, I like to make good progress but I'm certainly not one for speeding. I have a 6yr old and another one on the way so safety and good road etiquete are priorities for me. You've certainly not put me off the Levorg, quite the opposite! I think I really need to get in another for a proper test drive and see if it suits me then take it from there.

That's a great story about the ex-BTCC gearbox! I don't think they would have a championship winning driver if they left those CVT's in there! I noticed last year they were actually selling Jason Plato's car on an auction site, I think the estimates were £65 to £75,000 but it didn't sell in the end.
Hi, for anyone who has the TDI tuning box or any similar tuning box added to their 1.6 Levorg, what sort of 0-60 times can it achieve with this fitted? Also has anyone had their Levorg on a dyno with this fitted?

I'm sure I read a previous post from someone on here that it was about 2 seconds quicker to 60 mph with it fitted.

There are companies out there now who can flash the 1.6 Levorg from 168 PS to around 190PS which is close to the limit of the CVT gearbox. At the time when I had mine, that service was unavailable, and although I liked my Levorg, like you both, I felt like the CVT gearbox and the suspension set up held back a good car. Plus, with my elderly frame and suspect eyesight it was too low slung and large for me. I did flash its replacement (a similar concept shooting brake / estate) which also had a DCT gearbox car from 138 to 170 PS and it went a hell of a lot better, including the performance of the gearbox. Unfortunately, as with the Levorg, I traded it for the SUV equivalent in that model range. While more powerful, slips the clutch way too much for my liking, and is unflashable.
If only Subaru had fitted the 1.6 or 2.0 turbo unit to the XV or Crosstrek. My wife has the XV. It's nice, but that chassis can handle at least another 40-50 BHP.
 
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